BFV FTK Charts


#2

February Update

Assault
G15

MAS44

TURNER

Medic
ZK383

Support
KE7

Album here

Condensed spreadsheet here

kht120’s equivalent Reddit thread

G15 damage changes actually caused quite a reduction in lethality for hipfire starting at 15m since 1 headshot and 1 bodyshot will no longer be sufficient. This will also apply for anyone trying to let the recoil guide their fire upwards.

MAS44 and TURNER are nearly unchanged if you’re aiming center mass only.

ZK383 saw slightly reduced lethality when using Light Bolt across all ranges. Remember that it can use the Bipod so it’s not the end of the world for this weapon.

KE7 saw similarly slight reductions in lethality across all ranges in both sides. Its performance is only slightly lower than before and this is not necessarily a bad thing. If they’re trying to curb overuse of a starting weapon, they cannot go heavy handed in statistical nerfs. Those kinds of nerfs should be applied for an overpowered weapon. The nerfs to ease of use through recoil patterns and vertical recoil is the correct way to address overuse of a weapon.


#3

Trial By Fire

Assault
M1907

SG15

G15

Medic
EMP

M1928A1

MP28

MP40

STEN

SUOMI

Support
FG42

LS26

Album here

Condensed spreadsheet here

kht120’s reddit thread

The buff to Polished Action (hipfire SIPS) means your proportion of FTKs will be towards the better end than the worse end.

The FG42’s minor hRec buff reduces its limitation to CQB ever so slightly. It’s able to compete against the KE7 to a little farther than before which I think is a good thing. I don’t think the FG42’s damage output was attractive enough compared to how limited its range was.


#4

Trial By Fire P3

Assault
M1907

RIBEYROLLES

SG15

STG44

Medic
EMP

M1928A1

MP28

MP34

MP40

STEN

SUOMI

ZK383

Recon
P08 CARBINE

Album here

Condensed spreadsheet here

The changes to effective SIPS makes bursting more important at longer ranges than before. As long as you are within the weapon’s effective range, you shouldn’t really experience much of a difference.


#5

Trial By Fire P4

Assault
M1907

RIBEYROLLES

SG15

STG44

Medic
EMP

M1928A1

MP28

MP34

MP40

STEN

SUOMI

ZK383

Support
LS26

Album here

Condensed spreadsheet here

kht reddit thread

Weapons regained some of their former ranged performance and a larger portion of your kills will be from your best case FTK. It’s pretty good news for automatics. If they could get 15m 4 BTK, that’d be even better.

In this patch we also got our first useful Bolt Action: the Boys AT Rifle.


#6

Trial By Fire P5

The MAB38 has been added for Medic.

Condensed spreadsheet here

In a nutshell, it’s an MP34 that sacrificed ranged BTK for better hipfire. It’s certainly a solid choice.


#7

Defying The Odds

Album here

Condensed spreadsheet here

kht120 reddit thread

The WZ38M honestly looks like a G43 clone right down to the spec trees. The difference there is that while the G43 has Detachable Magazines, the WZ38M gets Quick Reload. Other than that the two are near identical. Recommend hipfire bonuses.

The S2200 is a very solid MMG with high accuracy for its fire rate. This is limited by its 30 round magazine. Whether you choose the ROF Boost or the improved bipod, you will have great performance. But remember that since this is an MMG chart, top and bottom are both based on the weapon in stationary ADS. Top has bipod modifiers active while bottom doesn’t.

Automatics still need 15m 4 BTK.


#8

Defying The Odds 4.4

Assault
M1907

RIBEYROLLES

SG15

STG44

G15

G43

M1CARBINE

MAS44

TURNER

WZ38M

Medic
EMP

M1928A1

MAB38

MP28

MP34

MP40

STEN

SUOMI

Support
FG42

KE7

LS26

Recon
AUTO8

RSC

P08CARBINE

Full album here

Massive buffs to SMGs. Really underwhelming ones like the MP28 and the EMP got major facelifts. They’re now much more compelling than before. The SUOMI and M1928A1 get a big buff to their hRec and the option to spec into high ADS moving accuracy. All SMGs got huge hipfire buffs. Moving hipfire as shown in these charts is viable out to as far as 30m which is the edge of the 5BTK range.

The dynamic between the EMP, MAB38, and MP34 is much improved. Generally you want to stick to the left side when using the EMP and the right side when using the MAB38. The MP34 will do well either way and now it can work in CQB better than before thanks to the addition of Enhanced Grips.

The rest of the weapons with access to Enhanced Grips also received some slight buffs but not on the level of the SMGs. We’re still looking at a difference of 0.75 vs 1.5 degrees when before it was 0.9 vs 1.8 degrees. Obviously it’s better than before but in practice it is doubtful people will be able to notice.

The damage changes to the Bolt Actions don’t really accomplish anything. They need the BF1 sweetspot to compete with how much more lethal and accurate other weapons are. Why would anyone waste time lining up a headshot when they can fire off a 15 round burst from an automatic and have a good chance at a kill? The effort/reward ratio just isn’t in the BA’s favor.

15m 4BTK still needs to happen. While the increased hipfire accuracy is appreciated, the short 10m 4BTK is too short. Pushing 4BTK out to 15m will help ARs stand out more against SARs. Right now players can give up a pretty small loss in extreme CQB and gain a lot of med-long performance by picking an SAR. Increasing the 4BTK range to 15m will help increase the SARs weakness in CQB and provide more relevance to ARs. It will be an especially big win for SMGs because of their new hipfire accuracy.


#9

BREDA

Simulating burst weapons was always a pain and the BREDA is no different. Hitrater has been updated to be able to present the BREDA’s burst mode properly. The burst limiter is properly accounted for in between bursts and hitrater can fire multiple of the burst in one run. Because the BREDA fires in 4 round bursts, there is no way for 15 round burst to really be simulated. As such, I’ve elected to run it using a 4 round burst fired 4 times for a total of 16 shots. The chart generator needed to be updated with an additional color for this. For now, that is simply pure black. It may stay that way simply because the BREDA is a special case or I may switch to using 3 sets of bursts instead for a total of 12 shots.

The BREDA is super accurate. Its chart greatly resembles an SAR’s. However, do not use it like an SAR in semiauto. You’re just turning it into a worse M1CARBINE and missing out on the whole point of the weapon. While predictive recoil within a 4 round burst is extremely difficult, you will not be able to achieve these FTKs by operating the BREDA like an M1CARBINE. What you’ll get is a worse M1CARBINE. Master burst mode. Don’t ignore it.

If you are a gambling man, pick the left side. At 150m, the BREDA has a 0.00023% chance of netting you a 3BTK by having the first 3 bullets all hit the head provided you aim center mass. The left side provides you the faster FTKs but not reliably so. If you choose the right side, you obtain more consistent FTKs with a smaller range of possible values.

While the BREDA looks pretty powerful, I won’t deny that it feels terrible to use. The vRec kicks super hard and this messes up a lot of my shots. What would be a 1 burst kill turns into a 3 or 4 burst kill. I think in this case it’d be nicer to give it lower vRec and use the FirstShotRecoilMultiplier like how BF4 burst weapon’s worked. Within a burst, the recoil was lower but at the end of the burst, when the FirstShotRecoilMultiplier was applied, there’d be a larger jump in the recoil. I think that would make the BREDA much more comfortable to use without really affecting its performance.


#10

MADSEN

This thing greatly resembles the improved BREN from the proposed damage model buffs kht120 and I put forward. Aside from the missing 4 BTK range, the two graphs are super similar. The flat damage model of the MADSEN actually gives it a slight edge over the BREN at longer ranges where it falls off to 6 BTK. The BREN does have Improved Bipod but that will only boost its accuracy and won’t make up for the difference in BTK. The only point where the BREN is better is when you require great ranged capability while keeping some semblance of CQB effectiveness. The one weakness of the MADSEN is its non-existent CQB capability.

TRENCH CARBINE

Little less vRec for a lot less damage at range. Nearly identical otherwise. Personally I would just call this an inferior P08 Carbine.


#11

Chapter 5.2 Update

Assault

Medic

Support

Recon

I don’t like these changes. A great deal of weapons have way more white/orange bars than they do green which is alarming. The previous weapon balance was based on powerful bullets that lost their damage through a combination of damage drop-off and missing. This is how the weapons can maintain the feeling of firing lethal bullets while still having a way of varying effective damage output between different weapons.

This update has introduced way more raw damage drop-off and to compensate there have been numerous recoil reductions in either 20% or 50% increments depending on rate of fire. Furthermore, the weapons now have “high ROF” versions of projectiles which is indicative that DICE is moving away from caliber balance modulated by accuracy to simple ROF balance. Back in pre-release statements, the weapon design was supposed to be similar to BF3 and TTKs under 300ms. This is no longer true and most weapons have TTKs around 500ms. That is even longer than BO4’s 400ms standard and that already played terribly.

As many people have pointed out on sites like Reddit, the weapons no longer feel like guns. Rather, they feel like marshmallow guns, paintball guns, etc. They are super accurate but barely hurt your enemy. You are forced into hosing enemies down and this feels especially terrible when you have double-digit BTKs and a small magazine capacity.

When we talk about weapon balance, I think it’d be handy to re-read Sirlin’s definition on the matter:

A multiplayer game is balanced if a reasonably large number of options available to the player are viable–especially, but not limited to, during high-level play by expert players.
—Sirlin, December 2001

Looking over the arsenal, it’s actually difficult to give an immediate verdict on whether this is balanced or not. We are looking at changes affecting close to 40 weapons. A match-up chart would be pretty handy in figuring out how each weapon stacks up against each other but I don’t have an easy way of doing that at the moment. Instead, I will simply set aside the issue of whether this is balanced and talk about something more important: fun.

Let us assume that the new changes have made all the weapons super balanced against each other (each weapon has a strict 50% chance of winning or losing against any other weapon). Even if balance was accomplished the current weapons are not fun to play. It might be balanced that the FG42 takes 10 hits at one range and the MADSEN takes 6 hits but it is not fun to have to hose people down like that.

These changes are not particularly noob-friendly either. The longer TTKs require more tracking, more recoil control, and more aiming. Noobs won’t succeed at this. Good players will. The changes favor good players more than they favor noobs. Even if survivability has increased across the board, is the act of surviving really all that fun if it means they get less kills too?

Modern Warfare takes the direct opposite approach for helping noobs. The weapons kill faster so that noobs have an easier time winning engagements and feeling good. They realize that people appreciate getting kills more than they hate dying quickly. Moreover, the weapons feel good. It feels good to blast someone with the M4A1 and seeing them drop before they can blink. It doesn’t feel good to hose someone down with the MG42 and see them scurry off.

The only parts of the 5.2 changes (aside from bug-fixes and other minutiae) I enjoy are the increased ammo counts and the improved ShowNametag system. Keep those but please get rid of these damage models.

Use flatter damage models. I don’t mean a flat 10 damage or flat 12.5 damage either. I mean a flat 30 or even 45 damage. If you need damage drop-off, make it +2 BTK at the very most. kht and I have shown before that you can INCREASE the damage and simply let spread/recoil do all the work in damage modulation. Look at BF3 again. People loved the fast TTK there and appreciated how BFV targeted a similar feel.

This also means looking at Suppression again. BF3 had tremendous effective damage output with the HB + FG combo, especially on the M16A3. Yet ranged damage wasn’t necessarily a problem because Suppression existed. Suppression gave players a tool to mitigate enemy ranged damage output. Even if the weapon was normally a 6 hit kill, Suppression reduced the hitrate so much that far more than 6 shots would need to be fired. This is a better way of modulating ranged damage because it places the responsibility of the players’ survival on themselves. A head to head engagement would be protracted while an engagement where one player clearly had the upper hand in initiative or positioning would be over quickly.

If people are dying to people they cannot see, a BTK change alone won’t help. They will still be unable to identify their shooter even if they survive more often. I would think people are more angry that they are dying to an effectively invisible enemy more than the fact that they died quickly. The solution to dying to enemies you can’t see is to not have enemies you can’t see. Dying quickly isn’t even a problem either. Again look at BF3. Slowing down TTK so that people can try and return fire isn’t very helpful. Even if players can now turn around they are still starting off with a health deficit by the time they pull the trigger. They will still lose this fight, only it will be a slow and painful death instead of quick and painless one. Again, look at BF3. If you were in a bad spot, you died quickly but in a “fair fight” it’d drag on due to Suppression.

TL;DR -

  • Even if the changes are intended to improve balance, the accomplishment of that is dubious while the negative effect on fun is obvious
  • Keep the increased ammo and improved ShowNametag
  • Use strong, flatter damage models (3 BTK, 3-4 BTK, 3-5 BTK) modulated through spread/recoil
  • Bring back Suppression as a player tool to reduce enemy ranged damage output
  • Improve team communication and enemy visibility by bringing over all the Spotting systems from previous Battlefields and expanding on them
  • Bring back full health regen and make it quick like Call of Duty instead of being insufferably slow or miniscule

#12

BAR 1918A2

The BAR has two fire modes. One fires at 720 RPM using one damage model and the other fires at 490 RPM using the MADSEN’s damage model. Activating low ROF mode also helps cut down on your hRec so you land more shots. The obvious thing to do here would be to use high ROF mode in CQB then switch to low ROF when ranges are a little too far. Or rather that might have been the case outside of 5.2.

The difference in ROF allows the BARF(ast) to beat the BARS(low) out to 50m and from there it’s still a very close race. This is due partially to the huge ROF disparity and also 5.2’s global hRec reductions giving the BARF a good enough hitrate that the accuracy advantage of the BARS isn’t distinct enough. It’s similar to the pre-buff SMG08 where its effective TTk was actually close to its theoretical TTK but the damage output was just so slow anyways it was meaningless.

I recommend only using the fast fire mode on the BAR and pretending the slow ROF doesn’t exist. If 5.2 gets rolled back maybe it’ll have its chance to shine.


#13

Chapter 5.2.2 Update

Assault

Medic

Support

Recon

Weapons will feel a lot better in CQB for the most part since 4 hit kills are back on quite a few weapons. Some weapons will feel better in medium ranges since the damage curves in those ranges have been adjusted. But long range performance will still feel really terrible because lower hitrate mixed with lots of bullets needed to kill is not a recipe for lethal weapons.

In the weapons that got hRec increases like the Suomi, you can see they actually do WORSE. This is because the increased hRec completely outweighs any benefit increased damage provided. Missing an entire bullet’s worth of damage does more to reduce lethality than a BTK shift ever will. It’s the reason why the damage models proposed by kht120 and I work. Hitrate alone is sufficient for damage modulation especially at long range which according to DICE on their stream is the biggest part of 5.2 they want to keep.

While your weapons no longer dip into double digit BTK territory, that isn’t cause for celebration. They are still significantly weaker than before 5.2 dropped. Until the weapons are pumped up to their 5.0 power levels, and ideally the “khtyrne” damage levels, they will still feel anemic.

If increased weapon variety is the goal, increasing TTK isn’t going to help. That increases the gap between high and low RPM. It’ll hurt low RPM guns, not help them. Adjusting damage around RPM is also not a fun way to accomplish this. People take issue when the gun they’re holding is firing marshmallows. It’s what people are complaining about in 5.2 and 5.2.2. The real obstacle to weapon variety is fame from films, documentaries, etc. People want to use iconic weapons. There is no avoiding that and making the Tommy Gun everyone is looking forward to into a BB gun will only anger them. The solution here is to not balance weapons based on popularity.

If anything, keeping weapons within a narrow power band (like the khtyrne model does) helps variety because no matter what people pick, the weapon they have chosen will not feel weak. Additionally, it is important that the location this power band sits on is at a power level players enjoy. We can look at BO4 again. Aside from all the OHK cheese, most of the weapons sat in a 0.400s TTK power band. So theoretically you could pick whatever you wanted and it should fare well right? Too bad people really didn’t like 0.400s TTK standard. This is where MW2019 does better: a lot of the weapons are 3-4 shot kill minimum so not only are they in a narrow power band together but also at a power level people enjoy.

Just my 2 cents.


#14

TYPE 97 LMG

The Type 97 LMG looks like a KE7 that dropped a lot of CQB power to gain a little more in ADS ranged power. It doesn’t have a hipfire spec but in return it gets some improvement when you’re engaging past 50m and approaching the triple digit ranges. They share the same damage model and same magazine size. They just have different specs, ROFs, and handling. I think the best way to think of the Type 97 would be if the KE7 got a third spec tree line where you could further reduce the ROF and CQB ability for even more ADS accuracy enhancements.


#15

TYPE 2A

I think the best summary for this one is that it is essentially another Suomi. Its BTK and ROF increases work out to basically killing at the same time as the Suomi. Sure, the specs are a little different. In this case I think it’s really up to your preference whether you pick the Suomi or the Type 2A. What’s handy about this chart is that the Full Left Hipfire illustrates what the Suomi would look like if you went for double hipfire specs instead of our Full Left and Full Right paths.


#16

M16A3

Left side is M16A3 HB + FG, Right side is with full Suppression penalties in effect (+1.5 degrees minspread, +150% hRec, +0.1 degrees SIPS added independent of other modifiers). This is done in 30Hz so divide the FTK by 30 instead of 60 to get TTK.

The main goal here was to illustrate the effect of Suppression, spread, and recoil on a weapon with relatively flat damage. A very complicated damage curve is not necessary and as others have pointed out, it leads to the guns feeling like peashooters. Reining in long range damage can be accomplished through hitrate.

The effect of Suppression has also finally been graphed on the chart. In close range, weapons take a very large hit to consistency but so long as the engagement range is within 15m, a kill is not unrealistic even if it is slower. As the range increases, the drastically lower hitrate results in a huge drop in lethality. In practical terms this means whoever is downrange has more time to move to their next piece of cover. Whatever direction that movement is, be it a retreat or advance, it will be up to the player’s own discretion.

Rather than use raw damage drop-off like 5.2 and 5.2.2 do, use hitrate. Use flatter damage models and use hitrate to modulate it. Restoring Suppression also provides an additional way for players to manage their survival. It’s better to empower players with gameplay tools instead of having designers taking a heavy-handed approach in managing everything. The former creates a more organic and dynamic game. The latter just gives players the feeling that they are running into walls constantly.


#17

Continuing to take a look at the effects of Suppression in previous BF games.

ACE 23 (Hbar + Ergo + Laser)

MP 18 OPTICAL

Just like with the above, Left is the standard weapon and Right side is the same weapon under the effects of Suppression for its respective game. In the case of BF4, this is +0.1 SIPS and for BF1 this is +0.045 SIPS and +0.46 hRec while standing still and +0.46 hRec when moving. An important thing to keep in mind is that BF3/4 charts are done in 30Hz and BF1/V are in 60Hz.

BF4’s Suppression has a much smaller impact on weapon performance the other two. While Suppression in BF3 absolutely wrecks weapon performance at nearly all ranges, with CQB flag fighting distances still suffering from a drop in consistency, BF4’s Suppression barely registers until well past CQB. At 30m the TTK is around 0.5 seconds. The M16A3 under Suppression hits a similar TTK at 15m. The ACE 23 under Suppression looks like a weapon with slightly less than 1540 RPM and this makes sense since SIPS doubled but hRec remained constant. Of course, BF4 Suppression had another weakness in that tapfiring negated it and that is the shooting strategy most players used anyways.

BF1 Suppression is slightly stronger than BF4 Suppression though still not anywhere near BF3’s. While the MP 18 under Suppression hits 0.5s TTK at 15m, it also fires significantly slower than the M16A3 and ACE 23 by default. Of course, it is not as if using 0.5s TTK as a measuring stick for Suppression effectiveness makes sense in the first place. It’s only being used as a way to try and gauge effectiveness of vastly different weapons under different Suppression effects. There probably is a better way but that eludes me. Another interesting result of charting a BF1 weapon is that it really isn’t all that inaccurate for a 15 round magdump. The drop in effectiveness at 30m is due to the switch to 6 BTK. If the damage model was flatter, I’d imagine that the performance would look much better. This is before any attempt is made at modeling bursting patterns which is what the BF1 system was targeting.


Some questions about BF1
#18

M3SMG

450 RPM 3 BTK minimum with a 30 round magazine. No specs to boost stationary ADS minSpread but has both hipfire specs. There isn’t another weapon quite like it but it most closely resembles the MP28. There’s a little exchange at around 20m where they trade their 3 frame advantage between each other. It’s not like they’re actual clones though, just the closest comparison I could think of.

Also, I’ve made a quick poll out of curiosity. Just 5 questions.

Poll


#19

The M2CARBINE having a minimum TTK of 0.35s is pretty painful. The most comparable weapon right now is the SG15. The two are very similar in performance so if you like the SG15 you’ll probably like the M2CARBINE. However, the M1907 will kill faster than both in close quarters. Given how painful any sort of ranged combat is right now, I cannot really recommend the M2CARBINE as a good pick. People are begging for damage, but the M2CARBINE answers with even weaker numbers than we already have.

The TYPE11LMG falls into a similar hole. It’s another slow firing LMG and is most similar to the BREN. It’d probably look better if damage drop-off wasn’t so severe but as it is, I see no reason to pick this up. At 35-50m your Expected TTK is in the 0.5s range and after that it balloons to over a second. Engaging anyone at that point is a waste of time.


#20

Chapter 6.2 Update

Assault

Medic

Support

Recon

Not a revert. The weapons look a lot better compared to 5.2 and 5.2.2 but that’s not a hard bar to beat. Speaking of bars, the BARS is actually worth using. Its minimum FTK is no longer a horrifying 36 (rare 29 from lucky headshots is not something you should bank on) and is now a fairly comfortable 22 FTK. Unfortunately that’s about where the good news for the BARS ends. With the switch from the Madsen in slow ROF to the .30-06 it should be using, the close up (<50m) FTKs experienced some improvement. However thanks to the reduced range damage of 6.2, the BARS fairs worse than before. Having to land 7 hits instead of 6 is a very big deal and it presents itself as a sudden drop and color shift in the chart. If the BTK remained at 4-6 instead of 4-7, I’d imagine the BARS would be much better. This is essentially the story for the rest of the weapons too.

I do not consider the additional BTK to have been necessary at all let alone the wild ride of 5.2 and 5.2.2. SMGs in particular look quite sad when compared to their 5.0 counterparts. The EMP’s current FTK at 25m is what it used to have at 35m. Due to the more severe drop-off, SMGs in particular struggle much more in mid-range compared to 5.0. This means the SMGs intended for those ranges such as the MP40 and MAB38 are still not up to where they should be in effectiveness while the CQB SMGs such as the TYPE2A and SUOMI will remain the go-to.

As for the TYPE2A the restoration of its pre-5.2 recoil (and minor nerf) has further cut down its laughably short 100% lethality range. Now, the TYPE2A has the possibility to fail to kill someone within 15 rounds at just 10m down from 15m. Only within 5m is the TYPE2A guaranteed to kill someone within 15 rounds. This is absurdly short.

Under the hood, multiple weapons retain the new projectiles and recoil modifiers they were assigned in 5.2. The difference is that those new projectiles have been altered to be in line with “normal” projectiles and the recoil modifiers have all been adjusted to have no impact. Their very presence, alongside the +1 BTK at range, leads me to believe that DICE is leaving the door open for a repeat in the future.

I will once again recommend increasing ranged damage and just using hitrate to regulate output over range. Eventually I may present FTK Charts of what I have begun to call “Red Line” (and I’m not even an Abigail main) damage models. As the name implies these damage models are what I consider to be the upper limit. Having played with similar damage in my own MGO3 mod, I would have to say they are far more preferable to whatever 5.2, 5.2.2, and 6.2 have to offer.


#21

New weapons introduced in Chap 7

Nothing really stands out about them.