Reflection on the Vehicle Meta (06/20/20)↥
Nice guide overall, I agree with most specs.
Here’s my 2c about tanks :
-38t : the best anti infantry tank in the game. It’s main strenght is the autocannon despite its nerf. High rof, splash damage and high ammo count. This setup allows you to keep firing with no downtime, switching between autocannon and MG to prevent heating, heavy pressure vs infantry. This tank has enough mobility to ignore enemy tanks. Take S mine as an emergy anti infantry kit. Just don’t play it on Panzerstorm.
-Panzer 4 : overall good tank, it’s not really strong at destroying tanks and it’s good vs infantry, mostly because of flares. It has better acceleration than a Tiger, but otherwise it’s a weaker version of a Tiger.
-Stug : If you play with a gunner, well it’s better using a Tiger. It’s only worth using it if you keep switching to the gunner seat which is the best of all tanks, but otherwise its cannon and his poor firing angle make it a trash tier tank.
-Tiger : the king of all tanks. High armor, wider shooting angle for the gunner and the highest damage vs tanks. It’s lacks some splash damage vs infantry, but it’s enough for any good tankers. Low acceleration. If you are a good tanker or playing with a gunner, I highly recommend taking the HEAT shell. The pineapple wrench is a bad perk (still useful when repairing at a resupply station as it gives more armor), but you should mostly repair with your blowtorch anyway or at a resupply station. HEAT shell deals up to 77 damage to light tank, 66 vs medium tanks and 45 damage vs heavy tank. It will always 3 shots a tank (unless someone repairs it) because of maximum armor lost despite the instant repair. You can’t lose a tank duel with this one or even 1vs2 if you have cover. The swapping time shouldn’t be a problem if you are aware of the situation.
-JU 88 : just one note about the spec. But Pineapply wrench is really useful for bombers as it allows to fully repair when hitting the resupply station, also it’s easier to repair a plane than a tank. Don’t even bother repairing a plane in a dogfight, with or without this perk.
-Staghound : It lacks mobility because of wheels (tracks > wheels) and bad acceleration despite its high speed. It was only useful before as it was the best anti tank and anti infantry tank in the game but since the nerf, it’s not really worth using it. It’s still the best british tank vs infantry, with either autocannon or 37mm (which doesn’t one shot planes). It has extremly accurate and high velocity cannon/MG.
-Valentine MK 8 : A good overall tank, better than panzer 4. It’s not that strong vs infantry, but it has a small size and decent speed to be tanky. It’s really good vs others tanks even if it lacks good burst, it mostly relies on raw dps so watch out for covers. Nothing much to say.
-Valentine archer : the reason british tanks arent that trash compared to german side. Just obliterate enemy team while camping at spawn. Lame and not really that strong at close range.
-Churchill : It used to be good with the howitzer spec, but howitzer shells were nerfed (almost no one were using them so why?). All shells were buffed in velocity except howitzer. As a BF1 howitzer LT main, I’m used to it, but it can bounce and poor range (unlike BF1 version). Most planes will be out of reach. Expect to lose tank duels vs good players, even with a god tier aim, it lacks range and mobility and even if it’s fun to see high damage (less damage than Tiger’s HEAT), it has a low dps. It has really strong splash damage vs infantry but it’s very weak vs buildings, it will require often 2 to 3 shells to destroy 1 building. It’s good on rotterdam/narvik thanks to splash damage because people don’t run much between objectives.
-AA tank : good mix between survivability and anti infantry. A better option than staghound on most CQB maps (devastation/rotterdam)
On german side, Tiger is clearly the winner. Unless if you want a high infantry setup (38t), I don’t see any reason using anything else than the Tiger. Panzer 4 lacks something good. The flares and the splash damage increase aren’t worth the loss of survivability, anti tank damage and better gunner seat.
On british side, it’s more balanced. Valentine MK 8 is the best all rounder tank as it has good anti tank options and Churchill is kinda terrible. Archer is the strongest but imo is boring to play, you can’t play aggressively so you won’t be able to get as many kills as with a MK8. AA tank is a really good option vs infantry, either playing safe or aggressively. Even if Staghound was my favorite tank, I don’t think it’s in a good spot because of those wheels, for long range fight, you will sooner or later get focused by another tank.
This is just simply not the case. Unless you’re facing infantry which have absolutely no cover, autocannon will always be inferior to a standard HE shell on the basis of burst damage. At best, autocannon has a 150ms TTK (excluding bullet travel time), but requires at least one shot to directly impact the infantry player. If you do not manage to land any direct impact hits, which is easy to do given a base spread of .2, then your TTK jumps to 600ms (again excluding bullet travel time). This is 600ms provided you miss none of your shots. This is 600ms that the enemy infantry can seek cover or break LoS, ensuring you cannot confirm the kill. Alternatively, the 37mm cannon on the 38t provides an instant direct impact OHKO for a TTK of zero, or an instant max 80 splash damage that can be easily followed up with 1-2 rounds from the coax gun for a TTK of about 300ms (excluding bullet travel time). In both of these scenarios, autocannon is worse against infantry. Especially infantry you cannot splash briefly or smart infantry that do not expose themselves for an entire 600ms. These are the infantry that may then hit you with one AT launcher of their choice, deal ~25 damage, and usually damage a part due to light tank frailty, drawing you close to (if not immediately to) your demise. Add in the fact that autocannon has no effect on opposing armor, plus has spread and overheat, and you’ve got a horrendously bad spec choice overall. The 38t is best left to flanking enemy armor pieces with 37mm AP rounds, specifically on maps like Panzerstorm that allow the 38t to maneuver around enemies and avoid direct engagements. Leave the infantry farming to armor that can easily mop up solider with generous OHKO cannon splash while also being able to take more than 3 hits.
Every tank in the game (so far) is weaker version of a Tiger I, save Churchills and the Sturmtiger - that wasn’t the point of the write-up. The Panzer IV is a tank that can do everything well, just not the best at certain things. However, it is more than capable of holding its own in armor engagements as the default 75mm stubby cannon HE rounds do only 30 points less of impact damage compared to the Tiger I’s 88mm HE rounds, while maintaining the same splash damage and a higher rate of fire. Very good at dealing with infantry thanks to the generous splash on its 75mm cannon, good mobility, turret traversal, and durable armor, it is the most versatile tank in the game, tied only with the Valentine Mk VII.
I assume you meant “If you play with a gunner, it’s better [than] using a Tiger.”
Every tank is better with a gunner, the StuG IV just has a better gunner FoV. Is this, a better top speed, and a slightly lower profile worth trading turret traversal, a coaxial gun, shallow turret angles, and more armor? No, probably not. Like stated in the write-up, you shouldn’t use the StuG if you don’t have a coordinated gunner with you. But if you’re playing with a gunner, you may as well use another tank and be much more effective overall.
King of all tanks, yes that I can agree on. Lacking splash damage on infantry? No, not at all… The Tiger I’s 88mm cannon firing the default HE rounds has a 5m splash, with a 2m inner blast radius of 112 damage. This is the best tank around for spiting one infantry in particular, better than than the 75mm stubbies of the Panzer IV and StuG IV which have smaller inner blast radii. Its downside is it’s slower RoF, making the Panzer IV the better infantry killer overall.
Concerning HEAT rounds, while they do provide slightly more damage overall on vehicle targets thanks to their extra blast damage over APCR rounds, these rounds also travel at about 65% the speed of APCR rounds. This then requires you to close the distance with a target to more consistently land shots, but in doing so you give up the Tiger I’s greatest asset of easy, potent ranged damage. While this may seem acceptable, in doing so you’re more likely to encounter more targets like infantry at close range, who are now able to more easily damage you. And because taking HEAT rounds as prevented the selection of the Increased Ammo Capacity spec, you now have to deal with wasting your anemic primary HE round ammo pool on these targets, limiting your time to engage targets before having to resupply, provided you are able to escape with the Tiger I’s poor mobility before being overwhelmed. APCR is far superior overall, allowing the Tiger I to fulfill its primary roles - ranged support and anti-armor.
I’m really not sure what you mean by this, as the in-game description is quite clear regarding the Pineapple Wrench’s effects, granting 150% health regain for 125% repair duration. Longer repair, more health regained. It has no effect on the amount of health regained from resupply points for aircraft, as one fly-through will remove the perma damage taken and allow a pilot to potentially repair all of their plane’s health back. There is no need to linger at the resupply point like armor.
Like the 38t, the Staghound is now better left to flanking targets, not attempting to farm infantry directly - especially with the advent of AT rifles. Also as stated previously, autocannon is still trash. Additionally, the Staghound’s 37mm is more than capable of OHKOing planes, as long as AP rounds are not used, as they lack the blast damage needed to completely kill the aircraft, and in all honestly, the Staghound with the LJ adapter firing HE rounds is un-ironically perhaps the best anti-air vehicle in the game right now, sporting the highest velocity while maintaining the potential to kill from full health. The Valentine Mk VII, CGC, and StuG IV firing AP rounds come close, but the prior is about 50m/s slower, and the latter two have restricted aiming abilities.
The Valentine MK VII with the 6 pound gun has a 3m splash, with a 1.3m inner blast radius of 112 damage. Combined with a velocity of 550m/s (faster than the Tiger I’s default 88mm HE rounds) and a competitive rate of fire, it is more than capable of deleting many infantry at various ranges in a single shot, using only splash. Throw in Mine Clearing Line Charges, an increase to RoF, an increased ammo pool, and you’ve got one of the most destructive anti-infantry tanks in the game. It is very good versus infantry - no autocannon needed.
It has already been established above that if infantry have any cover or a way to break LoS, cannons with long TTKs and spread are poor anti-infantry devices. All AA cannons are culprits of this. On maps like Devastation or Rotterdam like you suggest, you will be peeked to death by AT launchers with no way to retaliate due to poor TTK and splash, so AA tanks are especially bad here against mildly competent infantry. Use burst damage, use the medium tanks, stop propagating the “AA is OP versus infy” meme that was killed off in nerfs several patches ago. Better than a Staghound is a low bar.
Tiger is clearly the winner if you’re going for anti-armor and desire to be overwhelmed by a few infantry when positioning isn’t perfect. For actual team support, the Panzer IV exists (due to the reasons stated above) and does everything from well to amazingly.
That’s all that had to be said.
Unrelated, I updated guide after a few recent patch tweaks, though recommendations have not changed noticeably. Reflection on the Vehicle Meta is still relevant.
Hello @Incarnate, would it be possible to update this very good and useful guide to the latest patch, 5.2.2?
Yes, I will update this for 5.2.2 (and beyond). However I am out of the country until mid-January, so I have minimal time with the vehicle tweaks that occurred since I left in December. When I return I’ll sink some time into BFV to update this post as best as I can. Sorry for the wait.
Vehicle specs updated for 5.2. Thank you @jackusctb and everyone else for their patience. I will update my conclusions and reflections post some time soon ()
Type 97 disagreement - (LLMMMR)
I was also initially drawn to the Type 5 gun, but the AP shells actually do output significant damage to tanks. Having 56 shells is just so much better than having 28.
With 28 shells, I always feel guilty to fire one at lone infantrymen, knowing that there’s an MG available with plenty of ammo. There’s just a nagging doubt that you really should be rationing your shells, lest you require that dreaded trip to the resupply station even sooner. With 56 shells in your arsenal, those shackles fall off. You can just freely unload your cannon into anything that moves, without needing to reserve some mental capacity to manage your ammo pool.
The smaller profile of the default turret definitely helps limit incoming damage too. Additionally, the higher RoF is useful against both infantry and tanks.
I’ve also found that the Zoom Scope is really just a hindrance if you PTFO. Sure, it helps with sniping enemies at a distance, but that’s not where matches are won. In practice, narrowing your FoV when up close only serves to reduce your combat awareness. There really should be an option to flick between different zoom levels (like in previous titles), but as there isn’t, I avoid that specialization at all costs, even if it forces the Track Repair downgrade on me (like with the Sherman).
Finally, being able to use the Reinforced Turret and Tracks makes you fairly invulnerable to damaged parts, since a tank in defence (during Breakthrough) doesn’t often have its engine exposed to attack anyway.
So I gave LLMMMR a shot the other day, but personally I’d still have to recommend sticking to the RRRRRR path. I really did enjoy the large amount of ammo, as well as the increased survivability of the tank, but I don’t think either of those are really worth losing the 75mm Type 5 cannon. The universal applicability of the 75mm Type 5 means anything you look at will die, and you don’t have to be particularly picky about where you hit them. While the 57mm default cannon with AP rounds can match the damage output, it relies much more on good angles, which isn’t always easy to do, especially against funky targets like LVTs (of which there are tons of if you play Breakthrough). Furthermore in skipping RRXXXX you lose the engine upgrade spec, which is perhaps one of the best upgrades out there for any tank that has the option. Being able to move faster in a game with slow tanks, and being able to reposition in any game quickly, is incredibly valuable.
I don’t think LLMMMR is bad, in fact I think it’s quite good, but you really have to know what targets you’re up against, how many you’re up against, and what map/gamemode you’re on, to make the most of the ammo that’s given to you.
Let’s compare the base DPS of the Type 5 Gun and AP round against a Sherman.
Type 5 Gun: 23 base damage, 18 RPM
AP Round: 18 base damage, 24 RPM
I believe those base damages against a Sherman are correct (I can’t remember whether LVTs have less health or not). The source for the RoF is https://youtu.be/_sSidrcSsxo
With the RRRRRR specialisations, the Improved Loading Mechanism bumps up the RoF by 10%. So let’s say the Type 5 gun shoots at 20 RPM.
By my calculation, that means the Type 5 Gun’s DPS is 6.5% greater than the AP Round. In other words, unless you’re finishing tank engagements with next to no health, you’re giving up a lot of benefits from the specs I referred to for no real reason.
And I agree that the engine upgrade is nice, but since it forces you to use the tunnel-vision scope, it’s automatically disregarded. Also, those default LVTs in the first sector are really just cannon fodder. So long as you engage them one at a time, their complete lack of specialisations means they pose very little threat.
DPS calcs are worthless.
Besides from the fact that these damage numbers are incredibly vague (no angle specified, no part specified), Battlefield tank engagements (especially in BFV) are rarely linear engagements that boiled down to TTK/DPS/FTK times, as there are far too many factors that can influence or change the engagement. Fights between competent tankers should be drawn-out slug-fests where optimal or even near-optimal damage will never be received/achieved. Because of this, it is always best to do the most damage at the first instances of the engagement, so that one may have the largest upper hand possible for the duration of the fight. The firing tank’s positioning, the impact angle of the first shot, and timing of the first shot, should all be considered before taking that first shot - this is what separates a great tanker from a good tanker. However, it is also obviously affected by the basic attributes of the round being fired.
Knowing this, it should be understandable that burst damage is then preferable over sustained damage, and more burst damage is always better than less. Not only is it more helpful in the first instances of an engagement, but it also requires less repeated consistency on behalf of the user’s shot placement, while also reducing the amount of total exposure to make those constant shots, freeing up a driver to do other things like re-position, break LoS, or repair.
So, even if we were to take your numbers at face value (which I am going to have to assume are based on 90° front hits), I would gladly take a seemingly meager 6.5% DPS increase over everything else you listed, because if I’ve played everything else correctly, I will actually only need 3-4 shots at most to kill my Sherman target at an actually competent angle/location. In those 3-4 shots the increased damage will matter immediately, whereas the RPM loss won’t become more apparent until later in the fight (if somehow it hasn’t already ended, but even in that case either tank can just break the engagement off completely at any time).
Again, I’ve never said that alternatives to RRRRRR are bad, they’re just inferior for a tanker that can manage themselves and their resources well. Add onto that the almost complete unpredictability of BFV’s vehicle engagements, and I’ll take the 75mm Type 5 every time.
I did not previously comment on the optical zoom because I feel like that’s a personal preference thing, and in honesty it’s actually something I personally like, even when playing on objectives. Even then having the extra zoom to make hitting critical spots on tanks easier is very nice.
Added 7.0 recommendations. New Reflection on the Vehicle Meta and another additional section coming as I have time.
Since this thread is not getting more updates, I would like to post my corrections.
Conquest: Light tank is the best in most cases, except panzerstorm. You excel at killing infantry, you can avoid tank infested place. Speed is important for point capture.
Breakthrough defense: heavy tanks. resupply is less of an issue there, and if you keep enemy tank away infantry would rarely lose the point.
In general, heavy tank is for anti tank, but light tank is best vs infantry (fast reload + low shell drop)
Panzer 38t: best anti infantry, best on conquest, load 37mm + AP
• Special case: if unopposed by tanks in breakthrough, run flare, auto cannon, s mine.
Flare will spot clustered infantry helping the push. auto cannon switch with MG let you shoot uninterrupted by heat vs swarms of infantry close by. If you see cluster of infantry, you can sneak behind them and do s-mine ambush.
Although you can argue cannon is so much better at longer range, you are better pushing closer to point in breakthrough. In addition you get more ammo with autocannon.
Alternatively you can try spotting scope, smoke, and s-mine over flare in breakthrough. Use smoke to cover your advance, and drive into enemy with a s-mine blast. Risky, but can really pay off if works.
Panzer 4: stubby is best anti infantry in building, best on breakthrough offense. Flare for infantry support, case round for extra ammo.
Tiger: load AP set up. Best for defense in breakthrough and anti tank. Lack of ammo hurts HEAT set up, unless you are defensing near supply depot like in Provence breakthrough.
Flank panzer: 37mm + flaming onion. Flaming onion’s large blast radius let you snipe infantry, because you certainly cannot get too close to point. Against plane is a bit lame, make sure you burst fire in 3 round, until plane is close. It overheat too quickly.
Puma: 50mm gun, but increase rof over spotting scope. Rof important for anti-infantry and win duel vs Sherman.
Staghound: possibly best tank in game. Load AP, supply box, increase rof, little john, you can snipe infantry all day.
• Rocket can be picked over AP for breakthrough, great for flanking and take out clustered infantry. It is also great for hit and run vs heavy tanks, allow you to flank. It also has surprisingly good air burst AA function, which very few knows. However I prefer AP because the wheeled platform turn and accelerate too slowly, therefore not suitable for rushing close quarter. That and half the time you will get stuck on a rock when driving recklessly.
Valentine: great generalist tank, with AP it is excellent in anti tank despite being a medium tank, decent anti infantry, lots of ammo. Pick AP over snake launcher, its dps vs tank is as good as heavy!
Churchill: good defense tank, hold its own vs Tiger at closer range. I would pick APC over HESH route. APC offer better long range accuracy, higher dps, and can use as adhoc anti-infantry round when out of ammo. While HESH does have bigger splash, its inaccuracy and low rate of fire actually make it worse vs infantry. In addition higher rate of fire spec should be taken to win duel vs other heavy tanks.
Churchill GC: the anti-Tiger one trick. Best AP in game. Don’t use HESH.
Val AA: 40mm + case round, best AA in game by far, acceptable anti infantry.
M8: AP all day, maybe extra ammo for offense, as you are far from supply.
• Alternatively pick quicker repair, it can save life time to time • Extra ammo though give more AP, greatly enhance anti-vehicle, and you will need it vs Tigers.
Sherman: HE smoke path. It has extra blast vs infantry. It also cover team nicely in breakthrough.
• Alternatively 76mm HEAT path is all rounder for anti-vehicle, but LVT AP is better suited. • Flamethrower has a niche on iwo jima breakthrough cave section.
LVT: AP + smoke dispenser set up. Seriously, that smoke can both save life and cover infantry, last long and wide.
• AA variant is viable in fighter infested and wide open map like Iwo Jima, but against good pilot you may as well give up.
Chi-ha: Engine, AP + extra ammo, smoke dispenser. AP’s range advantage negate damage difference of 75mm option. Smaller profile make you harder to hide behind hill on defense. Faster reload and ridiculous amount of ammo let you defeat infantry with ease.
• 75mm is decent vs armor, but far worse vs infantry and not as good vs tank from far away. You carry few ammo.
Kami: engine, AP, spotting scope, trade turret rotation with smoke dispenser. On paper probably the best Japanese tank, but it suffer from bad gun depression, and pacific maps are full of hills. It is also troublesome when infantry get close, but you are super fast, and speed is important in conquest!
• Technically AA MG also work as well as LVT, but Japan usually is swarmed with stock LVT, make it a poor choice.
Best tank of each faction:
Panzer 38t: fast, flexible, deadly vs infantry. Dodge rocket frequently
Tiger: Best anti vehicle option. If you are not driving 38t you should be driving Tiger.
Churchill crocodile: The best tank in the game by a long shot. It has very flat shooting, high splash, extremely high damage, and decent reload on top of that. It will eat Tiger for lunch and have plenty of ammo to terrorize anything across the map. Did I also mention it also the toughest tank?
Staghound: Counter part to panzer 38t. It sacrifice the agility and perk for higher top speed and better firepower. It is picked for the same reason as 38t, in addition to shredding infantry across the map and being surprisingly good at shoot down planes.
Valentine: small profile, lots of ammo, hits hard, the best medium tank in game. However compared to Staghound, only anti armor niche shines. If you really want to kill that Tiger tank and neither Valentine and Staghound will do, pick Churchill GC.
Chi ha: with AP load out it strikes a good balance between anti infantry and anti tank, while being reasonably quick. The smaller turret let it take advantage of hilly terrain in the Pacific. It is oddly fast for a medium tank, combined with the fact Ka-mi has poor gun depression makes me choose it over Kami.
Kami: with AP loadout it is a close second. Better vs infantry, much faster, run on watter. Best in water heavy sections like Wake Island.
M8: picked for similar reason as other light tank. This one can bring more ammo letting you wreck havok on infantry, and pack enough AP to kill 2 tanks!
LVT: while not an exceptional tank, it is picked because Sherman just plain suck. Its strength is similar to other light tanks, but is slower and can go on water. Unlike Kami it is much slower, but with better gun depression.
Sherman: After the HEAT nerf in recent patch, the TTK barely makes a difference vs AP load outs. Besides the niche loadouts, it should be avoided due to large hit profile, slow traveling shell vs Japan, and mediocre vs infantry.
I feel saying “corrections” is a bit harsh, especially since a lot of what you’ve written misses the original intent of what I’ve written - a general guide for overall vehicle viability which is widely applicable to a variety of situations, whether that situation be opposing assets or various maps. Of course certain vehicles or vehicle loadouts are going to be better in certain situations compared to others, but it is not enjoyable to constantly respec your vehicles or force-respawn for a more situationally-applicable vehicle. That is what this guide attempts to avoid with its vehicle recommendations, and why I never really dive into map/gamemode-specific loadouts.
Nonetheless I’ll point out some things that stood out to me while reading through.
Light tanks are good on CQ, but medium tanks can definitely be good as well thanks to decent speed and durability. Panzerstorm is very viable as a light tank though, as its one of few maps that actually provides the space light tanks need to sneak behind enemy lines and cap flags or achieve rear hits on enemy armor. Taking head-on engagements with a light tank, like on any map, is typically futile. Panzerstorm is also one of few maps where the heavy tanks are actually decent, thanks to its more linear layout and long, open sightlines, even on CQ.
Would typically agree with heavy tanks being better on BT defense, but again its really dependent on team support and resupply location. 9/10 times I’d recommend losing a bit of armor to keep a greater ability to reposition defensively with the more independent medium tank.
Like I mentioned in my reply to Aldweenz above, the autocannon is an inferior pick in most situations, and this post was made before the buff that gave the 37mm and the 2pdr cannon 1HK splash ranges. Now that post is even more true, as giving up lethal splash damage for underwhelming sustained anti-infy fire (which you already get with the coax gun) is a straight downgrade. Taking autocannon should also necessitate taking AP rounds so the P38t isn’t completely worthless against opposing armor. Furthermore and contrary to popular community belief, light tanks running S-Mines and autocannon to kill infy is a meme strategy which is typically thwarted by a single explosive breaking your treads and removing the only asset light tanks actually have - mobility. Better off just shelling infy from a relevant distance.
Also as I mentioned in my reply to Aldweenz above, the BFV community needs to stop perpetuating the anti-infy SPAAG meme, despite still doing so a year later. Better anti-air exists the the Fliegerfaust which doesn’t waste a team armor slot, and while the flak guns on the SPAAGs are a bit more lethal versus infantry, its still doesn’t compare to the more lethal burst damage option in tank shells.
It’s certainly good, but I’d be hard pressed to call it the best. A large profile with exposed treads (wheels) makes it very vulnerable without proper positioning. While slower, the 6pdr Valentine can frag infantry just as hard while still holing its own versus all opposing armor and eating a few hits along the way.
AP is not required to kill armor if you aim for good angles versus heavier armor with the 6pdr, but it certainly does help. Snake launchers are great for clearing infantry on points, but the pick here can really go either way.
If you’re going APC, then you’re not using the 95mm cannon which is really the Churchill’s only niche. APC and the default 75mm cannon aren’t bad, but you’ll typically get better performance using the 6pdr Valentine’s with AP rounds thanks to its increased maneuverability.
This is not a speccable/default spawn vehicle so its not in the write-up and should not be comapred. Certainly good though.
A 0.3m increase in inner blast radius is hardly a reason to use the smoke rounds, especially when it obscures future shots. Even after the 76mm HEAT nerf, its still very effective versus armor, and due to the unpredictable nature of opposing armor (as written in my previous vehicle meta analysis), the 76mm is a must pick to be as effective as possible versus potential armor threats.
The statement on LVT + AP rounds being better for anti-armor has me extremely confused though. It has neither the speed, damage, or profile to actually be good in armor engagements, and can only safely engage opposing light tanks. Not saying it can’t work through sheer brute-force, but I would take the 76mm Sherman versus an AP rounded LVT any day.
Again this guide is meant to be a general catch-all. Listing 2-4 options for each faction kinda defeats that. I will always come back to recommending the medium tanks because, as a whole, they fair the best in a variety of situations. If a new player had to pick up any vehicle to learn how to use and invest company coin into, I will always point them towards tanks like the Sherman, Valentine, Type 97, or Panzer IV. These tanks have specs to increase their damage to compete with heavy tanks, while decent armor to survive several hits. They work well on a majority of maps and do so without requiring vast knowledge of the map or how to play armor engagements. Most importantly, this will prevent them from being completely dead weight when they spawn a vehicle asset in.
Trust me, I know my stuff. I am willing to share my compiled list of datamined tank stats. I even tried to get into the material modifier by hard tests, nobody dared to go that far.
On light tank:
Panzerstorm is not bad for light tank, it is just not as much a no brainer anymore. Medium tank sort of depends on map size. PzIV sucks on big maps. Valentine could work better in smaller tank infested maps. 90% of times light tank is best options, and when light tank dont work, there is something needed medium tanks cant do either.
On Pz 38t. Here is where you are wrong. Autocannon by itself is indeed inferior to cannon. It is the whole package of flare, S-mine, combined that improves vs infantry. Flare is a pretty OP ability, which is strong enough on Panzer IV, but combined with mobility it is super strong vs infantry. It provides strong boost to allies nearby, and defeats the only strength of infantry vs tanks: stealth. In addition information is extremely strong perks, it helps you avoid traps, position in optimal position to kill, reduce time to acquire target (biggest bottleneck of killing). S-mine kind of sucks, but on the 38t you know exactly where infantry cluster with flare. Then you flank, ram into them and fire S mine. Extremely strong on breakthrough. I had so many 90 kill 0 death games on Arras breakthrough, you are welcome to squad up with me to find out. Cannon and flare could work too, but you miss out 2 upgrades. Again, I said it works when there is no armor to oppose you. In general AP cannon is best. You seemed to miss that completely despite I said it first sentence.
Also pz38t AP is garbage, cant pen medium tanks in the front. Never take it.
You somehow think track damage matters. No, only engine damage matters. With flare and mobility, if you get sneaked from behind for engine damage, your death is deserved.
Flak panzer: Oh boy, misreading my post and focusing a tiny subpoint; a theme to go with rest of your post.
Indeed Flakpanzer is not the best tank, it is situational at best. If everyone bring a flieger, we would never need it. The art of when and how to use flak panzer deserves a post on its own, but it has its niche uses. My post is just about if you were to use it, what would be the best set up. Same as you, you didnt skip it despite it sucks right?
I had succesful games killing 10+ planes on maps like panzerstorm. But in the end I still lose often. Why? Like you said, team lack armor, front line cant push. Flaming onion matigates that. A tank is better for killing infantry for sure. I never denied that. But if you were to pick AA due to some niche reason, you must also kill infantry otherwise you lose despite clearing the sky.
Staghound: this thing is a sniper. The wheel is extremely awkward to turn, accelerates very slowly. Best to position far from enemy and shoot with your no fall off HE shell. It has 30ROF + more from perks. In comparision, Valentine is 20ROF, and has reduced splash range, and has bigger shell drop. You and I both agree that cannon kill infantry better than autocannon itself, and Staghound is the ultimate example.
Valentine: It is a generalist tank. Besides using 2 pounder like a tougher staghound, there is nothing special about it. It is good, but it dont kill infantry as well as light (6 pndr has reduced splash), lose to Tiger (assume they are not stupid).
I personally is not a fan of the snake. If you are a pro ballistician who can lob it to kill Tiger 50 meters away, then I concede. Otherwise a perk that only kills what is in front point blank is worthless.
As for AP or not, AP damage vs tank is night and day, and I have hard stats to back it.
HE: 100 blast + 120 impact = 204 true tank damage
AP: 34 blast (invalid vs tank) + 225 impact = 270 true tank damage.
That is 1/3 higher. But that only tells half the story. AP has 2 other advantages.
When critting, AP deals exponentially more damage because blast damage do not get boost from crit. The damage different can be twice as high. This is the reason I picked AP on Chi ha as well.
Extra ammo. HE vs tank is very ammo consuming meaning trips to depot and away from front. this is even the case even with extra ammo perk. AP stack on top of it gain bonus from extra ammo as well. I find the ammo bonus resulted more kills than from snake, which is reflected on my stats in kill/min.
Churchill: OK this one I actually concede a bit. I missed the material modifier of the howitzer. It is great for blasting tanks as long as range is not too much. Howitzer can work comboed with HEAT as anti-vehicle specialist in city. Otherwise the RoF is too shit vs infantry. Longer range tiger killer = Churchill GC, short range goes to Churchill 105mm.
Churchill GC: nope, this one is spawnable. Used to be awful, now pretty good. I love to take it in Narvik breakthrough. Near howitzer blast but without the shitty range low RoF of most howitzer. Also best anti-tank vehicle besides call ins. My go to for tank killing when not riding staghound.
Sherman: First, let me start with I use LVT most of the times, I use Sherman as a specialist of anti infantry in breakthrough. I reject the idea of must speccing every tank into generalist. You play the best generalist tank 90% of time. It just happen to be light tank is my pick, so I spec them to be generalist. When situation changes, I swap to my specialist build. Sherman just happen to be so shit I avoid it unless I use the specialist build.
Once again, you are plain wrong here. You only checked innerblast_radius but not the blast curve. Fall off starts after 40% away from inner radius. At 40% there is abrupt drop off, it is not smooth. The true kill range of 76mm is 2.2m, 75mm is 2.6m, our HE smoke shell is 2.78m. By picking anti tank gun option, you gimp yourself of 0.4m room for error when aiming, which matters greatly at distance due to shell drop. HE smoke however have lower drag like AP so it is more precise over range too. But wait, HE smoke has 120 blast damage as opposed to 100 standard. that means between 40-60% away from inner blast, you deal 96 damage. a quick MG through the wall will kill. In other words within 3.52m you deal at least 96 damage. HE smoke is an excellent anti-infantry option in addition to utility.
Also inner blast go through wall. Sturmtiger with low innerblast actually hardly kill enemy behind wall, but Pz4’s stubby and HE smoke do it easily.
Combined with excellent capability of smoking in breakthrough, you can silence a indestructable pacific bunker with 1 smoke.
The reason why I pick LVT is because it is much better vs infantry HE smoke Sherman not withstanding. Pacifics tend to be large maps, and lack of heavy meant you can always crit from front. AP here outsnipe Japanese tank hiding from distance. You are welcome to duel me. You will find at 200m+ AP hits so much easier that high dps of HE gun dont matter. Numbers here:
HEAT sherman: 318 true damage, 20 ROF, 6360 damage rating
LVT AP: 168 true damage, 30 ROF, 5040 damage rating.
However when criting medium tanks, it receives 75% boost in damage. HEAT receive less due to partly explosive. So LVT in practice deal more damage, AND land hits much more reliably.
One situation Sherman HEAT is better than LVT is vs Tiger who you cannot crit in front, and maps are less open. But you Can’t use LVT anyway so… And there is awesome M8 Greyhound that is borderline OP that competes with it.
Chi-ha: My god, universal lethality my butt. Only thing it got vs infantry is decent shell speed of 600. God awful RoF of 18 (slightly below 20 even with upgrade), garbage blast of 1.8m lethal range (1m inner, 3m max), extremely limited ammo. Literally the worst tank gun vs infantry. When it used to 2 shot Sherman it was a no brainer, nowadays it is mediocre at best.
Chiha 75mm: 100 blast + 220 impact 18 RoF, 5832 damage rating
Chiha 57mm AP: 34 blast (null vs tank) + 170 impact 22 RoF, 4488 damage rating.
True it is worse vs tank on paper, but I chose it from several considerations.
Besides the specific, I would love to debate with you on general use of tanks. That is a major cause of our disagreement rather than stats, as most of your statistical knowledge are on point.
will this be updated one last time please? im new and this helps but isnt up to date
for example BF109 G-6 has different specs now (Rockets are no baseline)
would really appreciate it. thank you
As as far as I know nothing significant has changed*, and the current write-ups for both 109s are accurate - the G2’s accounting for no WFRs and the G6’s fawning over how great WFRs + everything else is. Maybe you opened up the pre 7.0 spoiler section?
*Thanks to @Oscar it’s come to my attention that the Field Repair spec now restores some HP without needing to take part damage. Whether this is for every vehicle I don’t know, but I have tested it on a few and it seems to consistently work in this manner now. Must have been changed in the Dec 2020 patch, and intentionally or not it’s a nice buff. I’ve made a few tweaks but I don’t see any worthwhile changes coming from this besides a semi-viable Blenheim Mk IF path of LMRR.
While I’m posting I’ll also respond to this as well.
Because you’ve missed this in my initial reply:
With the intent of this guide in mind, the default cannon is the logical choice.
I want to know the game you’re playing where you don’t lose mobility when a track gets disabled. Must be fun.
All these things said about how you have to be able to farm infy if you pick a Flakpanzer, and then also stating that a flieger can do its job…so why not take an actual tank then? Glad you were able to kill 10+ planes on Panzerstorm once though, I’m sure they were quality pilots then who would have done large amounts of damage to your team otherwise.
Spawning a CGC on Breakthrough Narvik offense? You’ve gotta be messing with me now.
So because I either can’t aim or because I am so far removed from the action that I need to account for drag, I should be begging for .4m of extra boom on top of al already generous 2.2m, and then provide smoke cover for the enemies I’m apparently going to miss anyways. No thanks. The specs recommend kill infy just fine while hitting armor harder.
I believe there is much more that goes into explosive damage calculations through a wall than just innerblast radius. I will update this when I get a solid answer from someone more qualified than I.
EDIT: See below quotes from a dev -
[There is not] any sort of special inner blast interaction with the wall that I’m aware of…
Blast damage does an occlusion raycast to check if things are blocking the blast damage. The occlusion checks are settings that can be tuned on every blast (so in theory they could all be different) and can tuned to generally ignore everything or to make a thin fence post block the blast damage from a 1000lb bomb. Its kind like your setting “how far or if blast damage can reach around something”
World objects like walls don’t generally take tons of damage from blast and rely more on direct impact to destory[sic]…the Pz4 is actually just destroying the wall with the direct damage of the shell then there is nothing to block the splash…the Sturmtiger [is] supper[sic] blast damage oriented and world objects like walls don’t generally take tons of damage from blast and rely more on direct impact to destory[sic].
TLDR: not innerblast that determines how effective an explosion is through a wall, not to say that a bigger lethal innerblast isn’t more helpful of course
Again, no thanks. If I wanted to duel a tank at 200m+ I’d respawn myself irl for trying to be so irrelevant. Tank engagements past 125-150m are almost always futile endeavors which only end in a kill when one of the two tankers is too dumb to take cover. Any tanker with a few neurons firing should just avoid the engagement, or if they took a surprise first hit, take cover and repair any damage off with no consequence, then go about their day.
Universal lethality versus armor. If you had looked to those posts you would have understood the quantification of that claim. Yes its inner blast sucks. But if you can’t hit an infy within 1m /~3.3ft or slightly more and then follow up with a coax round or two, FPS games might not be the genre to play. Despite the nerf the 75mm Type5 cannon is still powerful, although it did make other alternatives slightly more viable.
With lackluster mobility or lackluster armor plus parts damage, tanks in BFV cannot be the center of attention. They should provide direct support to objectives without stepping on them. This means play in close-moderate proximity to the point, sitting slightly away to keep clear lines of sight, watching spawns, and clearing the point of enemy infy that pop up on it. Not on the point. Not 200m+ away. Say ~25m from the edge of the capzone, moving towards the edge of the capzone and maybe inside when needed, but backing away quickly to regain that spacing. Otherwise welcome back to the respawn screen.
i double checked and i dont have the 7.0 section opened
Sorry for being annoying
Not annoying at all - good catch! I don’t even remember the game prompting me to re-spec the vehicle after this change (as it has done in the past when spec tree adjustments are made by DICE), so good catch.
Guide updated, I agree with the specs you have selected there.
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I do not expect to convince you, so I will just write this for others reading this post.
track mobility reduction is relatively minor while engine damage you can hardly move. If track damage makes you 25% slower, engine damage is at least 75% slower. Consider the severity of both.
Churchil GC has highest dps vs tanks besides churchill croc, and has very good blast while have decent reload compared to awful howitzers. It is relatively effective vs unit in building and excellent tank killer. A niche but decent vehicle. Do not expect it to be your main tank though.
This person has barely used Churchill GC, let alone after the buff. Take this person’s advice with a grain of salt.
See for yourself, the radius affect kill area exponentially. Try engage with staghound then a sherman and see the difference. Again, if you are a aim god like this guy who can remove infantry in 1 shot then sure. If you find default gun to greatly help your consistency then go with mine. Your call.
The idea of tank on tank engagement beyond 150m is futile is absurd. Many vital corridors for fire support require you to aim at distance, for example panzerstorm, Iwo jima, aerodome. AP is important there. This is one example I will totally disagree rather than say pick your style.
I will politely say agree to disagree on this one. While both are viable I strongly prefer AP + more shell + bigger blast over more effect anti-armor damage at close range. Your style matters. I feel this guide somewhat underestimate the alternative, but then again it could be his play style.
Lastly, there are points he did not address so I will say them again. My playstyle generally favors anti-infantry more. Not that I ignore armor. I find with proper aim on armor weakness, I am more frequently find myself needing to deal with squad of top tier clan infantry players than other tank aces. I will of course switch set up immediately in the off chance I am facing a equally skill tank player (like once in over 100 games or so).
Snake launcher is pretty terrible on flat ground, ignore them. Without practicing lobbing them with slope it will never be worth it. Once you get good with it it can be effective, though AP is better off in most cases.
Light tanks are in general the best general tank to pick. This is reflected in both our stats.
Howitzers are god awful vs infantry due to poor reload for only moderately more blast. With exception of stubby panzer 4 stay away from it.